Queen Anne’s County Commissioner David Dunmeyer told the Spy that he is no longer certain that three out of five commissioners would oppose a Big Box text amendment, which could possibly be voted on as early as next Tuesday.
“On Tuesday the 26th there will be a public hearing for the citizen-sponsored text amendments. I believe the most controversial issue is the one relating to big box stores,” Dunmeyer told the Spy in an email. “This text amendment would give the green light to a big box store on 544 near 213 in Chestertown/Kingstown. This will be the only opportunity for the public to weigh in on the subject. Early reports seemed to indicate that this would be voted down by the Commissioners. My position against the Big Box amendment has not changed, but I’m not confident that my position is currently in the majority.”
If passed, the amendment would allow “unlimited” square footage for a large retailer near the corner of 213 and 544, which is opposed by many small businesses in nearby Kingstown and Chestertown. The text amendment would be county-wide for all commercial districts, and would open up large scale development in QAC.
The hearing is scheduled for July 26 at 6:45 PM in the Liberty Building.
Chestertown Councilman Gibson Anthony said big box stores do not represent smart growth.
“As a Town Councilman, my job is to try to protect the commercial interests of the town while maintaining our quality of life,” Gibson told the Spy in an email. “The allowance of gargantuan retail buildings just across the river represents an antiquated (car-centric) planning philosophy that flies in the face of the efforts being made by many in the town’s government to plan growth responsibly.”
Centreville Bob says
Attention All Readers: The Circus is coming to downtown Centreville next Tuesday!
Come see the environmentalists come out of the closet and into the Commissioners Meeting- hear language you wouldn’t hear from convicts- see behavior which should shame any decent person. Free admission to the County Commissioners meeting!
Guess we now have a psychic Commissioner… the best of pollsters could tell you that it’s very difficult to predict a vote or decision. Ask the Casey Anthony show viewers….
Len H says
Again, tell Kent County to stay out of our affairs in Queen Annes County. Just because a few people in Kent County didn’t want a Walmart in Kent County We in Northern Queen Annes County should be able to decide without Kent County interfering. We need places of employment in upper QA County and that is the only way for us up here to get it.
Centreville Bob says
Len: I agree with you. I don’t remember Queen Anne’s folks getting in Kent and Chestertown’s business when Walmart wanted to come to Chestertown. That’s the reason counties were created- separate interests.
upper QAer says
No one in the Kingstown area NEEDS a big box store. Is a job at a Target really what you want? A big box would be terribly out of place in this area. It would be growth of the worst kind.
Boomerang says
Guess the Anti Everything movement in Queen Anne’s County produced studies and white papers for everything but the Theory of Unintended Consequences.
I laugh to think that those who fought so much for so long are now close to be granted the privilege of the Common Man and his stores mere single digit miles from their preserved properties. Congrats CATSOC and QACA- I toast you with my white zinfindel and Busch beer!
rcg says
“County Ordinance 11-06 would eliminate the maximum gross floor area requirement for certain use in the Suburban Commercial Zoning District. This amendment received an unfavorable recommendation from the planning commission April 14.” from Star Dem…
“Other proposed amendments include a request by Kingstown property owner Peter G. Sheaffer, who would like to delete an entire section, 18:1-21D, which prohibits SOME general retail uses over 65,000 square feet in Suburban Commercial (SC).” also Star Dem…
and it was renamed “Big Box Amendment”…
do we know if the Walmart and Target folks have their checkbooks at the ready?
do we know any potential buyers for the property?
jonnycage says
Wow! I am so completely lost when trying to understand this area? Chestertown is falling apart? There are old empty buildings, there are new empty buildings. The stores that serve the area do so at their leisure. I dont know anyone who can afford to shop locally or will shop locally out of principle? The area is set up for retirees with plenty of money, or tourists who flock here to use their boats who have even more money. The local population is barely keeping their head above water? I dont understand this place, its like people took a snapshot of kent county in its hey day, and now with all the failures all they see is that hey day. Is a big box store worse then having roses? I cant seem to think of anything thats worse then the roses in chestertown. Is a big box store worse then Acme? Or peebles? All chain stores, all located in chestertown and all wayyyyyy past their prime. How bout we stop trying to save the people from progress and let the people benefit from progress. If it aint broke, don’t fix it. But you have to open your eyes wide enough to see if its broken, and in my opinion…. it is!
rcg says
jonny…i hear ya…the issue is facsinating (in a twisted way)…i hear both sides…i still say that we need to keep our $ here…if mr cordish closed all the stores in the Acme center to open a Target (demographics be damned), would there be outrage? if the people who don,t want pete,s property sold to a business needing over 65K/sq.ft had land they needed to sell and they were being told “tough luck, u are greedy”, would there be outrage?
there is outrage over unemployment…welfare programs…heck, Fresh/Greens is on the sh**list now bc their system isn,t accepting WIC yet…
would there be outrage if UofMd wanted to buy a large piece of land to build an evironmental studies school?…they would need classrooms, parking…pavement!!!! or would that be alright?
i would luv to have my cake and eat it, too…but i gotta have $ to buy the cake…or at least the organic flour to make the cake…
do i worry abt traffic? at that intersection..a little…can that be addressed? most probably? do i think all the stores in cville and ctown will die IF a store bigger and better than Rose,s comes? no..
Easton has survived…and more businesses opened and tax $ has been added to Talbot,s coffers…
heck…maybe mr dunmeyer will even get to bid on the job…whatever it may be…
Gren Whitman says
The above pro-big-box-shoppe comments are so very edifying and profound … but … my question is … what necessity(ies) can’t be purchased in Kent County?
Keith Thompson says
Gibson Anthony writes, “The allowance of gargantuan retail buildings just across the river represents an antiquated (car-centric) planning philosophy that flies in the face of the efforts being made by many in the town’s government to plan growth responsibly.”
Whether or not this is smart growth can be debated, but the idea that this car centered planning concept is antiquated flies in the face of today’s reality where so many residents of Chestertown and Kent County are already driving across the state line to shop. I don’t see downtown Chestertown affected much by a potential big box store across the river since these businesses don’t serve the same customer; what will be hurt are the businesses along the Rt. 213 corridor. Possible development across the river is one reason why riverfront development for Chestertown is so important in that it would create an economic draw to compete.
rcg says
Gren – i speak for myself only – i am not Pro-BigBox – rather, not Anti-BB. IF a store larger and nicer than Rose’s/Peebles comes, more Kent/QA’s $ will stay in said counties.
i happen to be housewife w 2 kids in grade-school. i know countless familiesand business owners in my demographic who go to dover/middletown/annapolis to shop – WEEKLY.
i rarely travel – but when i do, it is to buy items that are not avail here or too $$ly here. there is a wide variety of items – needed by families w children – that are not avail here. ever try to but a decent bath towel or a lacrosse stick in town? bulk items?
being a Native, i have spent my 41 traveling to shop – go to the movies etc. i am used to it – IF we had more options here, i think it would be lovely and easier – in the meantime i will support Delaware bc i have to do it – i will continue to shop online (no shipping/taxes)…and i will continue to go to Easton, where many, many stores, big and small, live harmoniously with one another.
The Furniture Silo and Ctown Antique Cntr may have a little competition, but the quality of furniture at those stores is greater than most BB stores have avail (IF a store comes here)…Southern States will have some competition, but the ‘store-in-imaginations-only’ will not appear instantly, they will have tome to prepare – they offer Many special and high quality items. and, i imagine, will keep most of their customer base – that base may even grow – krazee thought, i know…
i imagine the Kingstown business owners will attend the hearing – they will have an opportunity to express their concerns…
Keith Thompson says
Gren, I say the focus of the debate (as it pertains to Chestertown) needs to change. Instead of Chestertown and Kent County residents focusing on eliminating a possible big box store threat, the focus should be on how to develop a viable alternative. Its the difference between being proactive and reactive. The lack of a proactive response now will lead to a reactive response later.
Henry says
Guess it’s the lawyer in me coming out, but QA County is heading toward a Sherman Act violation, which is going to be very expensive and embarassing. An entity cannot restrain trade in a geographic region- the argument that a new retail establishment will cause competition is just the sort of argument that brings the federal government to a front door, or in this case, a government building.
StellaL says
Amazing that with all the issues we face how one that can so affect us is treated with such facile arguments . This amendment would clear the way for unlimited size stores and this cannot be trivialized. The reality is there appears to be a contrasting world view that takes in education, “class” mobility, and a profound irreverence toward sustainability. As with so many in our country voting against their financial interests, there seems
quite the love affair with corporations providing stuff in bigger and bigger venues. I know that size does
matter and is the crux of the argument for most opposed to this ammendment. Many seem to have a proclivity for demonizing environmentalist. Well, I must say that hearing such talk is like watching an episode of “Family Guy” or “South Park” . Inappropiate and very funny.
Keith Thompson says
@Stella,
It can certainly be argued that QAC has followed the route of “sustainability” and has found itself financially bankrupt which may explain why the voters put in three out of five pro-development commissioners in the last election.
Paul says
Demonizing environmentalists would not be so easy or funny in QAC if they acually were environmentalists. But CATSOC and QA Conservation and their friends don’t care or do anything for the environment…it is merely a convenient shroud to wrap around themselves to promote thier agenda of trying to keep anything from affecting their lives…almost categorically lives in which the “environmentalists” made lots of money in other areas, raised thier kids in other areas, had businesses in other areas…and then moved here and want to tell us how to save ourselves…they make up facts and publish phoney studies (and now little newspapers) to try to dupe those who live, work, have families and businesses here into believing their way is the right way…when it is absoluteley the recipe for financial disaster for current and futrue generations…unless like them you are a millionaire and retired and can stand any amount of taxation and cost of living.
rcg says
some people don,t want the zoning changed bc they believe that a BigBox store will come…some don,t want the land sold at all unless it stays a farm…some people clear land but don,t want others to do the same…some people will subdivide their farms but don,t want others to do it…some people need to sell land to pay basic bills, some want to make more money to provide more for their families and to be able to travel, buy a bigger house etc…
some people want to dictate what other people can or cannot do, but i doubt those folks would want the same restrictions.
some people complian abt lack of basic county funds and tax increases but aren,t willing to “allow” new/different businesses to come to the area to help offset costs…
it seems that, lately, most of the folks trying to control other people do it as environmental martyrs…maybe those who want to see true smart growth would not be so peeved by the environmental groups if compromise was seen as an option.
one of the biggest gaffs i have seen was when the anti~fastc crowd was crying for the fox squirrel…which is endangered bc of deforestation while the GSA was very clear abt their plans to plant 100k trees.
rcg says
and..keith…i appreciate ur thought…an observer would think the CCs were bad guys…appointed w the purpose of paving everything…but they were elected!…by the citizens of the county…hence the hearing next week…to let folks have a chance to voice concerns to those CCs…they may be getting tons of phone calls/letters/emails…if so, they will weigh those opinions and vote for the wishes of the people.
Kevin Shertz says
Big box stores are the result of an economic climate where the U.S. economy is largely dependent on a model of consumer consumption, oil/gas costs in the U.S. are relatively low, and the valuation of the Chinese Yuan to the dollar is favorable for U.S. consumers. Watch how quickly communities like Middletown (and increasingly, Easton) start to deteriorate when any of those conditions change.
Big Box stores are not an real economic plan. I’d advise all of Kent/Queen Anne’s County to take a trip up to Route 40 in Elkton, and see if that’s the future they’re looking for.
jonnycage says
I’d still like to have one big box store thats modern, clean and full of choices, then the falling down, dirty and some over priced shops that we are STUCK with. Kent county must have an allergy to tax revenue? I hope QA county doesent. Oh, and if not to much to ask, can we staff the new store with helpful, cheery and intelligent workers?
Henry says
Sustainability… how can one speak of sustainability, when there are these facts in front of one’s face?
1. the price of gasoline is over $3.60 with no end in sight. 5 years there will be less gas and higher prices.
2. the county “trade balance” is skewed against us. Our incomes go out of county and state, as our discretionary incomes cannot be spent, and spent economically, here.
3. The bay bridge toll will reach $8 within 2 years. Even if you aren’t a commuter, you will feel it when suppliers bring their goods and services over the bridge. Surcharge will become a familiar word to us.
4. Our counties continue to spend more than they take in, and the populace demands more and more (to match what they moved from).
5. People will continue to shop in larger retail/dicount/big box stores, and they will drive to them. The choice is whether to locate them here, or continue to watch the Economic Hemmorage currently in place. Status quo will mean more roads, more repaving, more gas and emissions, and less time for families and retirees. That directly translates to less contributions to the local economy.
The 544 site is logical. It’s 6 miles from Crumpton, 11 miles from Millington, and a convenient crossroads for all parts of the county. Can’t argue that it’s not near major highways. The trucks loading all day and all night can come in from 301. There are so few houses on 544 that it affects the least number of people in the county. The residents on that road do have an option- they can pool their funds to purchase the farm from Shaefer. He’s an outspoken proponent of saving farmland, and a friend of QACA from the state dept. issue.
The most puzzling part of this puzzle is that the conservation lobbyists and proponents have been asleep at the switch for several months, obviously. How could this have appeared out of the blue? Very poor reflection upon the governing boards and officers, in view of the enormous sums spent on their activities. This scenario has no upside for them- either way they’ve lost.
Bob says
I own a business on 213 about 2 miles from the 544, 213 intersection. I am not worried about the rumored “BIG BOX STORES”. There is nothing wrong with good competition. My main concern would be the traffic. The traffic from the bridge past Royal Farms is bad. There are bad accidents on a regular basis. If there are any new stores built on this stretch the problem will only get worse, wether it is a big box store or a small shop. With all of that extra traffic there will be extra garbage. Has anyone been past the Middletown Walmart lately??
rcg says
kevin..i simply know what i can touch..i was raised in cville but schooled in easton from 1972 til ’83…then lived there 1999 til 2006…i have not seen any backstepping…quite the opposite…
did y,all know kohl,s is going to open in the old Lowe,s store?
and..i must agree that the 544 site would be a decent location for a shopping area..bc RFarms is already there…it wouldn,t be coming to a completely stark area…i do believe that the intersection will need to be improved…i find it dangerous now…just by the very nature of the road cinfiguration…not bc of evil RoyalFarms (jk) nor come~heres (jk).
btw…i live on a rural road and have traffic issues…but i do not complain abt farm equip/tractor trailers…they are signs of production..speeding is my beef (disclaimer).
wonder what we will all have as a point of arguement if a manufacturing plant/company comes…or something other than what we all seem to predict?
Betty says
I’m going to have to agree with about 80% of what Henry wrote. I live in queen annes, and have watched the various sides of the fence go back and forth with each other. No doubt in my mind that QA Conservation Assocation really damaged itself during the past few years.
As someone who has lived here for a long time, it really offended me to see how rudely they spoke and wrote about the owners of that farm the government wanted to buy. I dont own a farm, but if I did and listed it for sale, I wouldnt expect to be treated like they were. Alot of my friends and churchpeople thought similar to me. There dirty tricks really changed alot in the election- a few candidates lost cause of the papers and emails that got sent from the president of it. This problem with the chain stores wouldnt be here if he had been decent instead of ignorant. I like the old ways of buying but people like that cant change my mind.
Len H says
rcg says:, yes there is apotential store wanting to open on 544 and 213 from what I hear. It is Redmonds in Dover. There storeres, from what I have seen, are not too big. I have been in there Dover store and it is a nice store. Bigger then Acme or Food Lion I believe but not as big as a Super Walmart. I don’t believe it is as big as a regular Walmart.
If Kingstown is so worried about competition then put a restriction that the store can only be a grocery store like Acme or Food Lion.
What I would like to see built there is a Sam’s Club. We find that Food Lion prices are way lower then Acme so we do most of our shopping there. We do make a trip to Dover about once a month to shop at Sam’s Club which is about 25 miles from our home.
We need some of the attention up here in the upper County that Kent Island gets. We are a part of QAC too, remember CC’s.
If in the past the CC had been on the ball aome of those stores in Middletown could be setting out on 301 in Kent or QA County
Keith Thompson says
@Kevin
I can’t speak for Elkton nor Easton since I don’t live there, but for Middletown here’s the scenario…
In the 90s, the population exploded in and around the outskirts of town due to an influx of people moving from north of the canal. This influx of people was putting an enormous strain on the infrastructure, especially for the school system. That coupled with residents repeatedly voting down school tax increases meant that Middletown needed to do something to increase tax revenues and the big box store was the answer at the time. That decision has its plusses and its minuses. The plusses are increased local job opportunities from both the big box stores and the businesses that have sprung up that feed off the big box stores; the increased revenue that has kept property taxes and school taxes from going sky high; and infrastructure improvements that have allowed the town to keep up with the population influx. The negatives are an increase in traffic; a town without much personality; and a town that has become less livable in terms of quality of life. Keep in mind, Middletown will be greatly affected in the future by a state upgrade to Route 301 which will become a major highway connector with I-95 and the town has already been greatly affected by beach traffic, so the town having to plan around a car-centric model was largely out of necessity rather than choice. Also, Middletown is not exactly blessed with something (like a riverfront) to build an alternative economic plan around.
I think it is inaccurate to automatically say that big box stores are not a good economic plan; whether or not it is a good plan is based on the location. Given the situation Middletown was facing, it has worked there given the lack of an alternative. Would a big box store be good for the greater Chestertown area? Probably not, but only if the town or region can effectively invest in and take advantage of its resources. If the town or region can’t do that, then big box stores may be the only remaining option. You can’t build a sustainable future when you’re broke in the present and that may well be the predicament that the current QAC commissioners face.
StellaL says
Keven Shertz – good point. But remember: Many people won’t be happy until they are born, raised,
married, and buried in a big box store. These stores are the elixir of happiness for them. Elkton?
they would LOVE to live in that big box. And damn-it, it’s “my land, my county,my,my,my,my…” and
the hell with anyone else. An added bonus to living in a big box is that one
never has to deal with fox squirrels – or environmentalist – again. Heaven for them, I’m sure because
if it aint in aisle 5 than it aint important.
Bernadette says
Some real Class Warfare on this site- so much for noblesse oblige or appreciation for those who have less than oneself. Stella, some people really do like big box stores, because it’s what they can afford, and can shop in for the limited time they have for errands. Some work more than one job, work weekends, work nights. Maybe that doesn’t apply to me, but I can recognize and appreciate the limitations others have, especially in a rural area with few to no job opportunities, high taxes and high real estate prices. And if you are a woman, the prospects are even fewer.
But we aren’t all maids and butlers- there are decent products at big box stores, and I’m not too fancy a person to purchase clothes and shoes there. Maybe it’s not Neiman-Marcus, but it’s good enough for me. It’s not below me, but I think much less of those who think in those kinds of terms.
upper QAer says
The issue at hand is not whether a big box store will or will not improve the tax base or whether it will keep money local or whether retired rich people should get a say in how their home county is run. The issue at hand is why we need to change the current zoning on this lot. The county’s own Planning Comission (not a bunch of radical environmentalists) gave this an unfavorable ruling. Put in whatever store wants to go there, just make it meet the current size requirements.
Bernadette says
re: Betty’s comments. Since she brought it up:
She wasn’t the only person in the county who watched a family get slandered at every opportunity. People who actually took the time to ask some questions learned that they were under a confidentiality agreement, and could not say anything or defend themselves. Who would like to be in that position? Then, an email was sent immediately before the election by the head of the association. If I were the farm owner, I would have sued for defamation. Even some of those who were against the sale thought that it was abusive and mean-spirited. Was it necessary to refer to someone 80years old as “Old Man”, and then attack his daughters too? None of them had ever said a word and had been called every word in the book. All that is over, but when you can see how lowdown a group can get, we can expect it here too. Who knows what will happen between now and the vote.
God punishes those sorts, and paybacks are hell. I think we are beginning to see that with this project. Those who oppose something often need to eat their words.
Kevin Shertz says
@Keith: Simply put: Development blossomed in Middletown because people were “priced out” of living in Newark, which in itself was a bedroom community for Wilmington. People moved there not because there was anything inherently interesting to them about Middletown… it was because they couldn’t afford to live in Newark/Wilmington. It was enabled by a Mayor who didn’t believe that people should be forced to go North of the C&D Canal for shopping. It has been a sellout for short term gains, and I’m more than happy to be considered “on the record” with that opinion.
I lived in Newark (Robscott Manor) as a young child, and my family moved in ’77 to Cecil County. I’m well aware at the way the area has been decimated by unthoughtful development in the past 30 years. I have watched Cecil County (and especially Elkton) evolve from a place that was very much like Kent County today to a wasteland. Do people want Rte. 213 to become Rte. 40? Just add a big box store or two.
I’d respectfully suggest you temper your thinking — from the conclusion that “Big Box” is the ultimate answer — to one where a community exists that is not terribly interested in compromising its quality of life to fit the standards of people in a boardroom in Bentonville, Arkansas. As to what this means for Kent County… I would rather find 4,000 citizens interested in maintaining the quality of life we enjoy by supporting local merchants than the 20,000 that are required to serve the interests of some bean counters elsewhere. I have never set foot in the Middletown Wal-Mart, and have no plans to do so. I don’t see how people can shop there and genuinely wonder where the “good American jobs” have gone.
When stores like Target, Wal-Mart, whoever… are willing to discuss the terms of their presence in this community with a size that is compatible with it, I’m all ears and eyes. They have failed to do that so far.
Catty One says
@Gren W ……..what necessity(ies) can’t be purchased in Kent County……
Let’s start with the purchase or lease of a new, not used, automobile. Then,
1. Pageant gowns and prom dresses. Then a proff. photo studio to take the pics.
2. Lamps and repairs thereof
3. Quality bed linens and bath towels
4. A good assortment of shoes/boots/athletic footgear
5 Those all important goods found in a well-stocked PET SHOP like the cat food, cat litter, cat toys, cat furniture that I need !!!
Bernadette, you are correct in your assessment of class warfare here.
Chestertown has always been divided, the battle between the haves and the have-nots.
So far, the anti-Big Box haves have prevailed over the have-nots
. But now QAC is giving us a second chance. Maybe this time they will get it right.
As for the traffic congestion, SHA will no doubt require a new traffic signal be put up at the entrance.
rcg says
when we purchased our home, we knew that there was potential for the farm across the road to be subdivided. the owner built 6 new outbuildings and blind that looks more like a hunting condo than a blind…the owner cut down from 50 to 80 trees… complaining won,t change the fact the he owned the property and was within his rights to do all of that. it really doesn,t bother me…but it wouldn,t matter if it did…it was his land.
now the property belongs to another family. will they subdivide? maybe…will the houses be orange and purple? will it matter?…it is within his rights to build/sell..it is his land.
IF they try to change the zoning down the road, i can make my opinions well~known…but the ultimate decision won,t be mine.
do i insult and call him greedy? or do i talk to my bank and see if i can buy some lots? or put my house on the market and take advantage of potential buyers coming down the road?
compromise and adjust 😉
observer says
The crux of the problem for Chestertonians is this: When George Washington stopped on his last trip through the town, he met with town officials of the day who inquired of him as to what should be done to improve and advance the town. President Washington responded, “Let me give that some thought — and don’t change anything until you hear from me.” The town is still awaiting Mr. Washington’s advice.
StellaL says
Oh my Bernadette- I really hate to ruin your beautifully scupted poor-me -you- snob…but I have never bought
anything in a Neiman Marcus. I just don’t believe we ALL have to live with the effect of UNLIMITED super-size -me stores…just so one wants their stuff closer than 40-minutes.
rcg says
Some local businesses would shop in a store where bulk items/lower $ are avail…small restaurant owners and caterers, for example…i know of several folks in the food industry who trek to dover…every week…and they buy for their families while there.
i will take stella,s remarks as an overexaggeration…maybe bc i am an infrequent BB shopperand a fan of most of God,s creatures (i do not understand the importance of the sheep fly) ~ but, really, i think the folks in favor of the text amendment are more pro~property rights/pro~options/pro~keep~$~at~home, than they are ProBigBox~and i do not know anyone who is against environmentalism in general…they just have a bad taste in their mouths bc of the bullying/martyish attitudes stemming from some local groups. One or two bad, organic apples can ruin the bunch…
MD Eastern Shore says
Stella, holy cow! Do you want to tell us how you really feel about the people who darken the doors of Walmart, Lowes, Target? If you don’t like those places, then by all means, I support your choice to take your custom elsewhere. But just because you don’t care for a large store format, you don’t automagically receive veto power over the choices of others. You need to step back, take a deep breath, and acknowledge that people are different (and thank goodness for that!), and learn to get along with that fact. Life is too short to be this bitter. I wish you well.
Personally, as I have said many times previously, I am pro-choice. Choices are good to have in all aspects of life, and I love having them to make. I can choose to shop in Chestertown, QAC, Rock Hall, or Middletown, as I wish, and as it should be. I hope you too can celebrate those choices. It’s part of what makes America great!
StellaL says
MD Eastern Shore: I’m glad I’ve gotten a point across but it has absolutely nothing to do with who, what,
when shop @ big box stores and what is a totally irresponsible amendment. You say that I should not veto where people shop yet you would allow a blanket open door policy that would allow any size store? And you
are implying that I am wrong to care about our area? You, my friend, are wrong. As has been stated over and over again: this is about the unfortunate fact – the size of the big box stores is out of scale for this area. Will
WalMart move into Roses? We tried to get them to do that 15 years ago to no avail. It is their way or the highway-
smart places like Vermont and Europe, however, made WalMart scale down considerably and occupy
vacant buildings WITHIN the town/city. That is what community is about. That is what sustainablity is about. That is what saves an area from blight. That is what we should all be aiming for. Having a community free
from the mistakes of the latter part of the 20th century is something our area should celebrate not deface.
You are right that I am angry. It is annoying when a huge corporation like WalMart refuses to work with a
community for the right fit. It is also annoying that a county would even think of allowing unlimited size
anything to be built. People seem to be so eager to sell out to a corporation whose $ leave by the end of each day. A corporation that uses cheap Asian labor (not US labor and never unions) to make their “goods”.
On top of all of this, there are at least 5-plus of these mega-stores with-in 45-minutes of Chestertown.
When is enough, enough?
I am sorry to vent so. It really is true: you don’t know what you’ve got ‘tll it’s gone…
Keith Thompson says
@Kevin,
I think you’re confusing the idea of me not being against big box stores as being for them. It’s not an either/or proposition here. The point that I’m making is that if an area chooses not to have that option, then it better have an alternative. I think Chestertown has an alternative with the riverfront. It’s not a guaranteed success, but the opportunity is there to be invested in. Are big box stores the answer for building a sustainable future? Not likely, but it is possible for a community to be so consumed with preparing for a sustainable future that it forgets the present and becomes an economic ghost town. It is also possible for a community to be so connected to its status quo that it can’t change and also becomes an economic ghost town. The reality is that now we have a car-centric culture and a community has the choice of being a part of that culture, or competing against it. That culture can’t simply be wished away and the community builds its economy in a vacuum. Middletown is far from being a great place to live, but it does have an economy that has weathered these tough economic times rather well. Has Chestertown weathered the economic downtown? I don’t think so, especially given the number of Chestertownies who shop in Middletown. I only work in Chestertown and I find it alarming.
As for people shopping at Wal-Mart and genuinely not wondering where the good American jobs have gone? Please define what you mean by a good American job. Consider the case of someone who recently started working at Wal-Mart after being unemployed for over a year. I’m sure that person is quite thankful for the opportunity Wal-Mart is providing for her to earn a steady paycheck for her and her family and would consider this a good American job as opposed to the alternative. I happen to know this person quite well since I happen to be married to her. Be careful about looking at the world through the prism of the apparent well-to-do world you live in since everyone is not fortunate enough to live there. We’re dealing with people here, not statistics.
Given my obvious bias here, I think I’ve been pretty fair in saying that I see Chestertown having an alternative to the big box plan with the riverfront and I think it has been quite clear that I’ve been out in the forefront of touting what I see as the economic potential in developing it. Oddly enough that position sort of bites the hand that feeds me since a successful economic program here should take business away from my wife’s employer. Of course, a successful riverfront development plan in Chestertown should help out the economic bottom line of my employer (WCTR) so I do my own vested self-interest here.
Scrapple Lover says
Looks like a bad case of Class Warfare to me- The “Haves” vs the “Are Not Allowed To Haves.” This reminds me a great deal of the person who wrote on Spy that she did not care about local merchants and stores because she shops at Whole Foods and on the Internet.
I’ll pause to let you absorb that statement. Sounds similar to a very recent posting here.
In any case, the vote coming up will determine whether a 40 mile area will continue to live as it did 60 years ago, or whether we will adapt in a very small way to more modern times and modern ways of consumer behavior. Hopefully, each of us can go beyond our personal fears and interests to ensure greater economic stability for this area. If not, the stores will continue to circle the drain while those who consume the greatest amounts of goods and services head over one bridge or another in search of what they want.
You can’t fight progress, but some continue to attempt it. Again, what’s the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result. Familiar?
rcg says
again…walmart and target may not even be potential buyers…maybe a manufacturer would come…maybe a nice shopping center that would fill other needs/wants.
how would each posted on this thread feel if they needed to sell their property, needed to sell…and knew they could get more $ for their land w less restrictions….
would we hear the outcry?
it doesn,t matter if the land is newly purchased or inherited…what if there was debt to pay, unforeseen medical bills, a need for college tuition…what if charitible donations are part of the plan for some of the profits…
we keep talking abt walmart like it,s going to magically appeqr in the middle of the night if the text amendment is passed.
what abt the enviromental impacts of so many people fleeing and driving 80 miles everytime they want to shop…or take their family to dover for a trip to kohl,s, dinner and a movie….
china…how many products are sold in every other store in the two counties that are mEvade overseas…
i need to know the real reason for the upset? is it lack of farmland? is it concrete? is it that people think a store (just behind a giant blue and green store) will look ugly? is it bc folks truely believe that ctown will sink into the groud if our stores have competition? is it that too many jobs will be avail?
Kevin Shertz says
Keith, if you consider me “well-to-do,” it only means you’ve never seen my tax returns. 🙂 We live very modestly and within our means. Small house. Cars that are older but paid for. No cable TV. I am sorry that you see my comments possibly as some sort of “haves vs. have nots” argument… it is a philosophical difference of opinion.
What I consider a “good American job” is one where there is a healthy relationship between the employee, employer, and the community. Over the past 30 years, this country has lost countless manufacturing jobs to overseas countries in the name of corporate profits for companies like Wal-Mart. American workers have been conditioned to accept increasingly lousy jobs for lower pay and less benefits in the process. It’s an unsustainable cycle of destruction. A race to the bottom. Henry Ford recognized a century ago that he had to pay his workers enough to afford his products.
Companies like Wal-Mart exist by selling cheap products predominantly made by overseas factory workers who earn dollars a day (if they’re lucky) for their labor. Period. It’s a thoroughly unsustainable economic business model because it relies on a favorable currency rate and low costs of shipping goods to the U.S. (i.e. low energy prices.) It also exists because sufficient domestic demand in countries like China has yet to emerge. As soon as any of those circumstances change — and they will — you’ll see big box stores closing in rural areas because it will not be cost-effective for the companies to keep them open. And left in their wake will be large buildings difficult to re-purpose, because nobody will be able to use all the space, let alone afford to heat and cool it.
Here’s a concrete example of what I consider irresponsibility: Wal-Mart opened in Elkton at the intersection of Rte 40 and Whitehall Road back around 1990, IIRC. To be located within the Town, Wal-Mart negotiated substantial tax breaks in a multi-year deal. As soon as the tax breaks expired, Wal-Mart closed their store, and moved a mile or so down the road to their current location, which is outside of the Town limits. What was left in its wake was a large vacant building that was completely vacant for years. It has been an eyesore, and over time other businesses that opened nearby have also closed. That may have been a good move if you were a corporate shareholder, but it was definitely a lousy one for the community.
My point: these big box businesses really don’t care about the effect they have on the communities they go into (aside from separating you from your dollars), and their sheer scale is definitely inconsistent with our community. As soon as it becomes inconvenient in any way for them to be here, they will go away. And we’ll all be forced to deal with the mess left behind.
rcg says
IF a larger store comes to the area, they will have to hire a wide array of folks to work the store…all different education levels. isn,t it more important to have our local neighbors employed that collecting unemployment?
isn,t it important for their paycks to go to local banks, for them to pay their bills and buy their goods in our counties?
isn,t it important for us not to continue to spend our $$ out of state? isn,t it important for us not to spend so much $$ on gas? what about the pollution issue? 500 cars a day driving 80mile round trips…(# of cars a guesstimate)
Larger stores carry NameBrand products, just like smaller stores like Dollar General…they also carry storebrand and some obscure items but they are not alone…
i could go into every store in town and find gift items made overseas. i just can,t go w the arguement that Walmart et al only sell cheap products…they do, however, sell most items at lower prices than other retail outlets.
they are usually clean, too…ever used the restroom in Rose,s?
so…would someone please clarify…the text amendment should not be accepted bc…whatever may be built on that land would……
Keith Thompson says
@Kevin
You wrote…”What I consider a “good American job” is one where there is a healthy relationship between the employee, employer, and the community. Over the past 30 years, this country has lost countless manufacturing jobs to overseas countries in the name of corporate profits for companies like Wal-Mart. American workers have been conditioned to accept increasingly lousy jobs for lower pay and less benefits in the process. It’s an unsustainable cycle of destruction. A race to the bottom. Henry Ford recognized a century ago that he had to pay his workers enough to afford his products.”
How many jobs is Henry Ford’s company exporting overseas? To counterbalance your point. How much have American workers priced themselves out of the market? Over the past 30 years, American workers have also conditioned themselves to expect things from their employers that they previously didn’t. These extra benefits (healthcare, retirement plans, etc.) come at a cost to employers. While actual wages adjusted to inflation have dropped, the drop in wages doesn’t factor in the cost of the benefits received by employees. Not that these benefits are bad things but when you factor in these benefits while continuing to push for higher wages, it becomes more cost effective to export labor where workers don’t demand as much. Don’t discount the influence of unions who (though my wife’s experience with them) often are more concerned about protecting the jobs of their laziest, most unproductive members at the expense of the more hard working, productive ones.
You write “Companies like Wal-Mart exist by selling cheap products predominantly made by overseas factory workers who earn dollars a day (if they’re lucky) for their labor. Period. It’s a thoroughly unsustainable economic business model because it relies on a favorable currency rate and low costs of shipping goods to the U.S. (i.e. low energy prices.) It also exists because sufficient domestic demand in countries like China has yet to emerge. As soon as any of those circumstances change — and they will — you’ll see big box stores closing in rural areas because it will not be cost-effective for the companies to keep them open. And left in their wake will be large buildings difficult to re-purpose, because nobody will be able to use all the space, let alone afford to heat and cool it.”
So where does the consumer factor in? Just as successful politicians answer to voters, successful businesses answer to their customers. Today’s consumer wants simple things like lower prices and convenience. If Wal-Mart didn’t adjust their business practices to reflect consumer demands, they’d lose their business to a company that does. So will higher energy prices or the emerging change in domestic demand in China change the economic dynamics? Yes, and the business community will adjust or it will die. Certainly planning for the future is proactive, but planning for the future is moot if not adapting to the present puts you out of business. The same dynamic works with economic development in that a community can’t spend so much time preparing for the future that they ignore the present. The reality is that Kent and QAC and their towns compete with Middletown, Dover, Easton, etc. and economic development must address that reality rather than wishing it away. QAC’s budget crisis may well have reached that critical point of no longer being sustainable.
You write…”Here’s a concrete example of what I consider irresponsibility: Wal-Mart opened in Elkton at the intersection of Rte 40 and Whitehall Road back around 1990, IIRC. To be located within the Town, Wal-Mart negotiated substantial tax breaks in a multi-year deal. As soon as the tax breaks expired, Wal-Mart closed their store, and moved a mile or so down the road to their current location, which is outside of the Town limits. What was left in its wake was a large vacant building that was completely vacant for years. It has been an eyesore, and over time other businesses that opened nearby have also closed. That may have been a good move if you were a corporate shareholder, but it was definitely a lousy one for the community.”
Yes the old Wal-Mart location is an eyesore (and apparently a medical complex in moving in there now), but I think it’s inaccurate to say that the closing of that store has caused other nearby businesses to close. Some have closed…some have moved the same distance down Rt. 40 (like my credit union which I still use; a holdover from when I was working in Havre de Grace)…and others have actually opened (like the Walgreens across the highway). This was already an economically depressed area when Wal-Mart had their location there and one of the results of moving down the road was a huge amount of businesses opening near the new location. Besides, businesses relocating or closing and leaving eyesores is not exclusive to Elkton or Middletown. Gee how long did it take to fill the old Burger King eyesore at Washiington & Morgnec and why did the replacement leave another vacant storefront? When is something going to replace the old Chrysler dealership in Kingstown? How about the Chestertown Foods plant on Morgnec Rd? Why did the town throw so many roadblocks in the path of Royal Farms to fill the vacant property on upper High Street which is already an economically depressed area? It’s hard to pass harsh judgement on the economic decisions of other communities when your own house isn’t in order.
Finally you wrote “My point: these big box businesses really don’t care about the effect they have on the communities they go into (aside from separating you from your dollars), and their sheer scale is definitely inconsistent with our community. As soon as it becomes inconvenient in any way for them to be here, they will go away. And we’ll all be forced to deal with the mess left behind.”
You’re painting with a bit of a broad brush here. First of all, consider that even within a large corporation like Wal-Mart you have stores run by good managers and ones run by bad managers. It’s well accepted that regionally, the Wal-Mart in Middletown is one of the best managed stores…Elkton, not so much so. What doesn’t get publicized is that Wal-Mart (through customer and corporate donations) contributes back to the community through various charities, or via the Chamber of Commerce, etc. Even if you look locally in Chestertown…as much as a public relations hit that PNC has taken over their controversy with Herb and Christine Will, PNC also contributes to the Prince Theatre. Do you boycott the Prince if you’re angry at PNC? Do you not participate in the Kent County 4-H program that provides Christmas presents to eligible local kids because they buy some of the gifts at Wal-Mart? Finally, if its inconvienent for a business to remain in a community; could the community actually share in the blame?
As I said before, this is not an either/or situation. I advocate options meaning that a community has to be open minded enough to consider all options and flexible enough to change when necessary. If you completely close off one point of view, you often wind up being blind to the weaknesses of your position. The best answer generally winds up being somewhere in the middle. I don’t argue that the big box option is the answer for Chestertown, but what I do argue is that there should be something that can effectively compete. It’s easy to say no to the big box stores, but what are we saying “yes” to? That’s where I’m trying to lead the debate.
Dan Lessard says
Do any of you actually live near 544/213? Ilive in Kingstown. Do you know what the traffic is like a various times of the day between 544 and the Chester River Bridge. Adding a Walmart would be unsightly as well as adding more traffic than we need. I like to bicycle as do others down 213, 544 and up to Church Hill. Most times it is like taking your life into your hands. Add a big box store and between shoppers and the delivery trucks it will be a nightmare. Oh and I am sorry…cannot afford to buy the farm, but I do not think the highest bidder from somewhere else should get to determine my qualify of life
As far as jobs,,,I would like my children to shoot for something better than a Walmart job. This is not positive development and as Kevin pointed out Walmart does not care about us.
I am sure that Middletown DE thought a little development would be a good thing, but look at it now.
Allen says
Lots of discussion about the value of farms and farmland, but strangely enough, it’s almost always from county residents who don’t live on farms.
We are going to hear over and over at next Tuesday’s Hearing on Big Box stores all about the value of farmland and how it is crucial to save this specific farm near Rt. 544.. As I listen, I plan to disqualify those who:
1. Don’t live on a farm
2. Don’t own a farm
3. Don’t own a farm, because they chose to invest in stocks and bonds instead
4. Acquired their farm thru the old fashioned way- marrying someone who inherited a farm.
They may wear the green hat, but they really have no business speaking about how farmland affects them personally. If you like a farm so much and think the financial decisions are so black and white, liquidate your investments and purchase one.
Those who couldn’t do that should quit their steady salary jobs, and work on one.
Talk about the value of farms when you can personally speak of the hard work and sacrifice, the mortgage and the investment, the drought and the flood.
Mailman Jack says
Reading this is like watching sausage being made.
Kevin Shertz says
“It’s easy to say no to the big box stores, but what are we saying “yes” to? That’s where I’m trying to lead the debate.”
Keith, this is not difficult… I will repeat what I have already said earlier in this thread. When corporations like Wal-Mart, Target, whoever are willing to consider their presence in a community that is compatible with the desired scale of development and consistent with that community’s long range planning, it’s a win-win.
Wal-Mart is already exploring this in rural areas — they know that the times are a’changin — so it’s not even a concept that’s controversial with them:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/03/business/03walmart.html
Chestertown would be very well served by a good quality general merchandise store, but not by one that is disproportionally sized to its market. Accepting big box planning is a Faustian bargain.
StellaL says
1. We understand about supply side economics Keith. We’re dealing with alot of the negative effects of
it now. We can go on-and-on-and-on about WalMart. We get that your wife works there but facts speak for them-
selves: an empty WalMart is a huge deal (compared to Burger King??) and as negative as an “alive” Wal Mart.
They put local businesses under and just as bad—they are an ugly blight that uses too much energy,
lays too much asphalt, and acts as an attraction to other sprawl-makers Now–if WalMart would come into a vacant downtown spot…that is when a discussion could take place. This discussion, however, is not about that. This discussion is about an amendment that would open up an entire county to any-size development. I’m
terribly sorry, but that is a cost way too high.
2. There are people promoting this amendment who I would call phony-populist; they stand to make
a real-estate killing if this goes through. We have zoning for a purpose: we all live in a community.
Why should a group of land owners make money off plastic mcmansions and mega-stores while we
have to deal with the results of this car-centric pollution? Private-Property rights? Fine. Mind the zoning laws
and nobody is going to interfere.
3. Scrapple lover: You say that you don’t think living in Chestertown is “living in modern times”. I don’t understand this statement. Do you define modern times as living with-in spitting distance of a mall?
Is your quality of life determined on how close a WalMart is? I do not mean to be incredulous…but
what attracted you here in the first place? A job? Then how about one closer to an area that appeals
to you. Born here? Why stay if this rural local is too….rural? Please, just don’t keep using this tired argument about “us vs. them” . I mean, really, what is “upperclass” about wanting to live in a livable place? And by
this logic one would think that the “them” moved in and took all the shopping centers away.
Because some people want to drastically alter this unique and fragile area they had best come up with
better arguments.
StellaL says
Oh please Allen. Good for you living on a farm. Guess what? So Do I.
rcg says
allen~i sit at my father,s farm now…he has always rented the land while he worked for the state as a judge in QA,s. i live on a rural road in Kent but not on a farm bc we couldn.t afford a big piece of land. that doesn,t mean we don,t understand farming and it doesn,t mean we don,t appreciate it…my husband has been a hunting guide for 30 yrs and appreciates and respects the land, the work and the landowners.
if u were to sell ur farm, do u think u deserve to get ur $$,s worth out of that land? i think u do. does peter deserve it?
rcg says
and..even though a job at a Walmart may not seem like a great job to some folks writing here, it is a great job for many, many people. it is a great job for people of many levels…i have a friend who is a walmart pharmacist…she supports her family…and they recently just bot a farm on which she and her husband will raise thier 2 young children. on the other end of the spectrum, some people will want to work there bc there aren,t other jobs to get.
rcg says
mailman…pass the syrup, please!
Keith Thompson says
I wrote…“It’s easy to say no to the big box stores, but what are we saying “yes” to? That’s where I’m trying to lead the debate.”
Kevin answered “Keith, this is not difficult… I will repeat what I have already said earlier in this thread. When corporations like Wal-Mart, Target, whoever are willing to consider their presence in a community that is compatible with the desired scale of development and consistent with that community’s long range planning, it’s a win-win.”
My answer…if this is not difficult, then why are so many people in the Chestertown area leaving the area and crossing state lines to shop at big box stores? So much has been made of the “Wal-Mart Effect” of having a big box store at Rt. 544/213, but that discussion ignores “The Wal-Mart Squared Effect” of having to compete against already existing Wal-Marts across the state line. Long range planning is nice goal, but it’s the lack of short term planning that is making QAC commissioners consider the big box store option. Again, the big box store option is likely not the answer for Chestertown but what is the plan to compete whether it’s across the river or across the state line? I think the answer is out there with the marina purchase and riverfront development, but even that’s proving to be a hard sell.
Jody says
“Mind the zoning laws and nobody is going to interfere.”
That comment from Stella gets me a little steamed. “Noone” is a group of people who have been fighting every development and most new concepts coming thru the Planning Commission for years in QA. “Noone” is the group that fights non-contiguous development, BY RIGHT development and every other way for landowners to get any kind of money out of their land. The drought we are having now could pull some farmers under.
BY RIGHT development allows development within Title 18, so why does the group of Noone fight them?
Some may own farms, but they sure dont’ know much about farming or the current economic situation.
StellaL says
Jody: I don’t know about Noone but by non-contiguous development do you mean development that is outside of an area zoned for development? Is Noone trying to get QAC to center development around existing
developed areas so that the county avoids haphazard growth? I would think that if a property is in an
appropriate area for building then a land owner would be OK. However, if every landowner in a county
thinks that they can build a housing development then they would be mistaken.
StellaL says
Also – I don’t believe one has to be a farmer to feel “the current economic situation”. Everyone is feeling it.
StellaL says
Some people are leaving the area to shop at big box stores because they want to. Simple. Additionally,
some areas have decided that they want that kind of sprawl development in their town so they let a
big box in. If an area has decided that they would prefer a nuanced approach to growth then they reject stores not compatible with the scale of the town. Rightly so, a town that decides this approach should feel the amount of $$ leaving an area for a big box store is a small price to pay. After all, many here do not shop @ a big
box and if they do they’ll drive the 40-min. I would dare say there are more and more areas that wish
they had put more thought into growth.
rcg says
why would putting a larger store or a shopping area on 544 be considered outside of an existing developed area…it wouldn,t be haphazard…there,s a housing development, RFarms, a motel, hair salon, bowling alley, car dealership…already in that area…
rcg says
“Is ‘Noone’ trying to get QAC to center development around existing
developed areas so that the county avoids haphazard growth?”
Why is 544/213 not considered an existing, developed area if we have: a housing development, car dealerships, a tire shop, a hairsalon, tanning place, pizza joints (i am told Roma plans to reopen), liquor stores, a bar, a business center, doctor’s offices, a motel, the bowling alley…
what is haphazard about that?
Marge says
Demographics, demographics, demographics!
The quite low population of the Chestertown market area cannot support a large big-box store (or more), at least not to the extent needed by owners to keep such a store open and viable. That was one of the lessons that should have been learned (and it was by some) during the Walmart flap of the mid-1990s, when a Walmart in Middletown didn’t even exist and would not even be the additional factor it is now. Walmart want to “give” us ONLY an inappropriately large store, of about 110,000 square feet, if I’m recalling correctly. They were adamant and inflexible on the matter of size, refusing to consider that a store of about 60,000 sf, for instance, would be more suitable for the area’s population and spending patterns and capabilities.
I was convinced then, and remain so, that had Walmart opened a store of the size it demanded, it would have operated for a few years and then closed because it could not provide the per-square-foot profit the company requires, leaving empty a very large, probably ugly, white-elephant building and a lot of unemployed locals. Of course, in the meantime numerous local businesses would likely have been forced out of business by the competition, leaving us in very bad shape re local shopping and having to travel out of town for various types of purchases, including to Walmarts in other places for the kind and level of goods sold there. In fact, I suspect that this might even have been Walmart’s plan from the beginning. (I’m not speaking here of downtown Chestertown shops, most of which are not the sort that are Walmart competitors, but of those away from the downtown area, such as stores selling paint, hardware, plants and gardening items, etc. as well as general-merchandise stores.) This scenario is not an entirely hypothetical one but has been the experience of numerous rural/small-town areas in the US a few years after the (sometimes much-heralded) arrival of a large Walmart.
Stellal says
I was referring to zoning re anyone’s
property …. The 544 property was
not a part of that general dicussion.
Please reread. This 544 situation
is one landowner who thinks he has
a personal right to profit by polluting
an area with inappropriate zoning
request.
Jay Falstad says
I’ve been getting alot of calls on this matter. Please see my ‘opinion’ in todays Chestertown Spy, under “Opinion”.
Jay Falstad
Executive Director,
Queen Anne’s Conservation Association
http://www.qaca.org
410.739.6570 (c)
Pete says
Hi Stella: Your mind will be eased after reading Mr. Falstad’s Opinion piece. I’m copying from his opinion piece: “Since TA 11-06 does not have any direct environmental implications”.
Sounds like that group is saying that concerns about water quality, etc. are unfounded. Good news for you.
Stellal says
hi pete: you know–when i read mr.falstad’s piece, i felt that his group has totally wimped out on this issue.
In fact, i can’t imagine anything worse for QAC than this amendment. Perhaps Kent Count’s green
group has more teeth? I don’t know. You, Pete,however must be sooo happy to be on an environment group’s side? See, it’s not so hard! We just need for them to pick for battles for their county!!
rcg says
my spider-sense are tingling…