In the spirit of the Spy’s real name gambit, there is certainly room for rational positions taken against rabid excess. I do think that government manages money rather badly. If only the real debate were linked to that. But there is more to it.
Regarding spending, the dialogue ranges from what on to how much to if at all. The passion seems centered on if anything at all that Social Democracy has brought should be paid for by the wealthy class, including the viability of the middle class itself. So what remains of America appears to be strip mined rather than rethought. Certainly there are times when I have questioned myself as to the limits of compassion but never the intent or attempt. Too much of what is happening today is life on the fly rather than by the plan. There should be room to follow dreams without reverting to pure impulse and repression.
I really resent the current class war. I am afraid that 2012 will drag it from the attic to the middle of the living room as a centerpiece fixture. Do problem solutions have to have a brand name? Tea Party is the current catchall buzzword to put this virtual civil war into perspective. Certain Wall street players created the Tea Party to advance their goals, and certainly have lived to regret the run-away horse they created. Anyway the chaos is still useful to them despite the backfires.
In another forum I suggested a civilized debate of the issues. The answer that I got was just another version of the problem. Recalling a famous writer on the Right, an individual said that giving money and power to government as it is now aligned, is like giving whiskey to a teen-aged boy. He likened our government to a broken automobile chassis with a failed engine with a new body design. Like GM used to build cars he said. He went on to say in essence that there was no answer but to stop spending at what ever cost to society, it seemed… Just stop… No discussion, no other position and hardly a transition it would seem.
If you choose to connect this or similar commentary to the Tea Party motif there are similarities in that the above is certainly not an example of commentary that solves the manufactured class rift that has emerged in this country. It is simply parlor talk and not particularly polite at all. This bend of talk actually misses the point of intellectual integrity, because that particular virtue of thought does not support a narrow agenda. The shallow tone set in coffee table chatter crib notes, self-serving, touting mocking platitudes. Maybe it is something to ponder, over a very dry martini maybe. Or grab bragging rights for among peers. It seems there is no level of debate acceptable, just a predetermined verdict of guilty for any opposing position.
This social upheaval is matter of the survival of Western culture as an Island of civilization, is the real issue. If you are listening to the comments of the presidential Candidate Dwarfs about electric fences and barbed wire at borders, laughed with thumbs down jeers about letting a young man die for lack of surgery or found cause to boo the gay marine, or blame the unemployed for their losses. The Tea Party says that corporations and small business that offer employment in these times should be in some way sanctioned for not towing the party line.
Taking this to a larger perspective, major players in the in the chaos say that there is no solution and really no debate about the so-called failure of the present social democracy. Certainly there is no debate at all going on. What it really resembles is a one sided inquisition with personal and corporate fortunes financing the new reality.
There are people who believe the Middle Class is unnatural and life at risk is the norm. They see the middle class as parasite sucking money from them
and their Brahman peers. And they intend to gut the Middle class
by spreading fear and no-speak to the cultural lexicon.
I spent most of my life as a New England Republican changing to Democrat as geography or social issues required. I had problems with some ultra liberals around 2001 and quit activism at that time because I did not agree with Democratic leadership and an individual in Rock Hall particularly at that time in Kent County politics. I like the freedom from dogma that we can exercise under the present society.
Today’s danger is to social democracy not just liberals That is why I am back with what little I can do I can spot Tea Party regional coordinators and operatives easily by their scripting and talking points, however some are otherwise cloaked in false moderation And I like calling them out.
This is History unfolding like a road show but spectators are not equipped to see it. For the record on the Tea Party, you do not have to be ill mannered
or bullying to be a star on that stage. There are several moderate seeming members operating among them, who are smooth as silk.
It is not a matter of one side or the other. Just no compromising resolution at all, just disruption of the core of current reality. And what they can’t buy they will intimidate to gain or play mind games in media and even places like this.
One side does not promote American values they demote and deceive the democratic process and their goal is as old as history more power…more money, more and more…excessive. If it sounds Draconian… that’s because it is. And if it sounds like a rant, better that than the kind of silence that abetted other tyrannies in history. It is a lot easier to keep our present government in check than it will be to deal with the Tea Party Constitution.
If you like their ideas then join the Tea Party and support the company store economy, but this is not what America is about.
Carla Massoni says
The Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street activists know that something is amiss. With ears pinned back and snouts lifted, they smell it on the wind. Unfortunately, both groups react without putting in place the underpinnings needed to formulate long term plans to address the monumental changes barreling down on us like a rogue locomotive. The Tea Party wants to put on the brakes even though this will invite certain derailment. The Occupy Wall Street activists aren’t sure of what they want – although the most articulate among them appear to understand the change they seek will require a major overhaul of our laws and regulations – something that won’t happen overnight. Meanwhile, the train speeds on. The world economies are facing unparalleled upheaval. The brightest of our economists – both liberal and conservative – see the handwriting clearly on the wall. Unemployment will be with us well into the next decade and the global markets they have touted are now a problematic reality. Our politicians are paralyzed and unwilling to buck the most rabid of their constituents or moneymen. Never has the need been greater for creative initiative. Sixty-five years ago, Einstein said – “Everything has changed, save the way we think.” Old methods of problem solving will not work in this period of evolution. We must be daring, open to change and willing to work together. Now is NOT the time to remain on the fringe – be it liberal or conservative. Now is the time for innovation.
Stephan Sonn says
It seems to me that
Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street
are creatures of the rift,
gone to major schism..
The fact that they seem to
represent an either or mantra
breaks in the politics of accommodation
sets non- accommodation
as the default mechanism loop.
It is hard to birth a baby
in a house.on fire
It is important to take the dynamics
away from fire starters
by a popular creative mechanism.
Gren Whitman says
The Tea Party has engendered the current coterie of Republican presidential candidates, the most credible of which — ex-governor and ex-ambassador Jon Huntsman — stands the least chance of nomination.
Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, Paul, Perry, Romney, and Santorum each claim to be “righter-than-thou, thou, thou, thou, thou, and thou” and make Goldwater, Nixon, and even the sainted Reagan look like liberal GOPhers.
(Thank you, Great Spirit, for arranging matters so we don’t also have to deal any longer with Christie, Guiliani, Huckabee, Palin, ‘n’ Trump!)
This ain’t rational politics, folks! These pols have tumbled off the map. These be the dragons over the edge!
When China’s Zhou Enlai was asked what he thought of the French revolution, he replied, “too soon to tell,” and, indeed, it’s also too soon to tell about the Occupiers.
But in directing their inchoate wrath against “Wall Street,” the Occupiers are clearly differentiating themselves from the Tea Partiers, who hate “Big Government,” but tolerate Wall Street. Plus, Occupiers don’t avoid being arrested for a righteous cause! Non-violent direct action; I like that!
Stephan Sonn says
Welcome Gren.
This was a chancy op ed,and I wondered how many would respond
but It seems to have gotten response from the deep thinkers in this forum.
I was tempted to say that you can’t negotiate with barn burners
so now I will say it directly..
I am thinking that Carla is right we need to restore the middle …a tall order.
Civility does not mean that barn burners can’t be called out with deliberation.
If you catch the leaders in their script all they can do is repeat themselves
Because they are typically redundant and have to defend
With narrow borders of expression,
I hope that OCCUPY is not polluted with bongs and rolling paper
which is the latest trick by the opposition operatives.
Also I think Elisabeth Warren needs to be the cause celeb
for a moderate take of OCCUPY since she inspired it.
Keith Thompson says
I think the problem with re-establishing the political middle in the current political climate is that the political middle right now is a compromise that is taking the worse ideas of the two major political parties. Essentially, the worse elements of the Occupy Wall Street movement is generating a sense of entitlement that rewards laziness and unproductivity and the worse elements of the Tea Party rewards and enables corporate greed. Our current political structure has jumped the shark and as long as we’re viewing our nation’s problems under the current liberal/conservative or Democratic/Republican prism; we’re contributing to the problem rather than attempting to solve it. As long as we attempt to put labels on political movements, we can’t get past our talking points and can’t look outside the box to find solutions.
What I find interesting about the Occupy Wall Street movement is that many of them are often perceived as railing against free enterprise or capitalism and yet many of the things being protested such as corporate bailouts or loan practices leading to our mortage crisis are not things that were caused free enterprise or capitalism. Many of these same observations have been made by many people in the Tea Party movement, but they have come to the same destination by a very different route. Ideas can’t come full circle if you have a linear view of politics.
Stephan Sonn says
If the Tea Party , there will be no US democracy. Plain and simple.
Stephan Sonn says
If the Tea Party PREVAILS.
it is the end of social democracy in the the USA.
A moderate majority must defeat the radicals
and offer remedy.to the fiscal chrisis
S Pennington says
I’m guessing that the writers here have learned all they know about the Tea Party movement from the mainstream media, because my personal experience couldn’t be more different than what is written here.
The Tea Party movement I know is comprised mainly of ordinary middle class folks who historically have spent their time and energy living life and raising their children to be productive members of society. There wasn’t much time, or interest, for politics. They might be registered to any party or independent. They fly straight, take care of their homes and neighbors and family, pay their taxes, take their kids to government schools.
But then something happened… spontaneously groups of these people realized that their way of life was under siege from the regime in Washington. The regime that threatens to take more and more, to raise taxes on everyone, rich and poor, the regime which thinks that the way to fix the economy is to mortgage our children’s future in order to provide another year of full time work for government workers at all levels and thereby delay the inevitable adjustment of local and state governments to learning to live within their diminished means. This “stimulus” outraged a large and broad group of people who simply lived life to make a better future for their children.
A whole new group of people who were previously politically inactive, besides maybe voting for president once every 4 years, has now sat up to take notice. They are noisy and independent and largely uninterested in more “help” from the government at any level. This is obviously threatening to all sorts of entrenched interests… Otherwise, why would those interests spend so much time trying to misrepresent what the Tea Party movement is all about?
Keith Thompson says
Stephan writes…”If the Tea Party PREVAILS, it is the end of social democracy in the the USA.”
…and yet, if you talk to a typical Tea Partier, they will likely argue that “social democracy” is the problem and that their followers must be defeated. As long as you (or anyone else) see someone with an different political point of view as an adversary, any thought of finding a moderate middle ground that offers a remedy to our problems is a pipe dream. As long as you’re automatically dismissive of any point of view that you don’t agree with, your point of view is just as radical as those you dismiss. As long as you have an adversarial point of view, you cannot logically preach compromise.
Carla Massoni says
Amen.
Stephan Sonn says
Mr Pendleton are you under the illusion that the Tea Party
as it functions in Washington is grass roots America.
Grass roots America does not starve its children
Stephan Sonn says
Lets see Keith, It is ok for the Tea P to do all that you falsely
ascribe to my or moderate efforts to resist.
Did I get that right?
I am just not going to reply to you any more.
You are not in the real world.
Stephan Sonn says
Just as an after thought Mr Pendleton
I so enjoy it when a Tea Party lock step makes my case
Stephan Sonn says
Sorry Carl
You may not have lived through the Chamberlin era in Britain as my family did.
This may be the time for compromise but it takes two to tango.
Abstract philosophy doesn’t work here.
You have to pick a side that appeals to the moderate center and be militant.
You cannot demonize the Tea party more than they do to themselves.
Stephan Sonn says
I have never heard of a debate against Social Democracy since Hitler.
But it really wasn’t a debate was it?
Keith Thompson says
Sadly, “la la la la, I can’t hear you” is the nature of our political discourse in 2011.
Stephan Sonn says
A necessary flaw of Social Democracy
is that it must suffer the zealots and the fools
that other forms of government dismiss.
Stephan Sonn says
This forum is a microcosm of the larger national struggle.
What it is beginning to show is that
the best thing going for the Tea Party
Is a divided distracted opposition
Marquise of Queensbury Liberal abstract pontificating
is another form of parlor chatter in this visceral era.
Actually I think the Tea Party has the better strategy
Just lie and stand by it and the opposition caves.
S Pennington says
@Keith: Bravo. Well said.
says Stephan: … Social Democracy …
must suffer the zealots and the fools…
Funny, I thought that the whole new civility and real name thingy was supposed to reduce / eliminate the name calling and other assorted unpleasantness. I guess the Editors need to work a little harder on that.
What is this “Social Democracy” thingy? Don’t we live in a Constitutional Republic? Or is it Maryland which is the Social Democracy?
This zealous fool wants to know!
Stephan Sonn says
This is Chestertown a College town not Jack Nicholsons “Chinatown”
so I expected more than skiddish bookish Liberals and impotent Libertarians
combining in mutual delusion in serious forum.
I am not sorry I wrote this piece
but my reaction to all but one comment here
has been a strange mixture of boredom and annoyance.
Thanks to Internet there are other venues.
And I am really not a good Nanny
A lesson learned….
Stephan Sonn says
So the Tea party Zealot reaches
for the protection
of the civility he helped destroy
Then he drags the old shoe
of Constitutional Democracy
as the antidote for Social Democracy
All this after he cheers on the
fellow traveler Libertarian for his help.
Carla, that Amen was ill used
How about this deal
Tea party and all who think like them, Pay for the wars,
since you make them
The other 99% can pay for social needs via their taxes
Stephan Sonn says
Some time in mid November 2012
when the House will flip by 8 votes or so
and the Senate will hold by 50-50
keeping Joe Biden very busy
It will not be good business
to be cast as a T Bag party member.
The Tbag party is a bad investment
S Pennington says
Um… what just happened?
The guy writes a semi-lucid opinion piece and then gets upset when the Amen corner fails to show up.
I thought the article did a fine job of stimulating civil conversation and found me in rare agreement with Keith.
Stephan, don’t go!
Stephan Sonn says
I am not going anywhere.
When you figure out that
I am not a liberal by choice
but by necessity of the times
and can get out of your box
there might be real conversation.
If you know anything about Wintson Churchill
you might notice that I paraphrase him frequently,
My College Hero was Ayn Rand,
but not in these times
Stephan Sonn says
As for Amen,
I never use the term
or expect to use it
except in worship.
Carla certainly is a free agent and
can use the word in any way
that pleases her.
I am almost as wary
of traditional Liberals
as I am of Tea Party Dogma
Keith Thompson says
@S Pennington, thank you and the fact that you rarely agree with me isn’t something that concerns or bothers me, nor should it. I’m in the opinion business in that my job requires me to be somewhat outspoken (and hopefully in an entertaining way). I”m also in the communications business which requires me to be able to semi-intelligently converse with guests that I both agree with and that I disagree with. I’m able to get along with most everyone who comes on the air (because I listen to them and ask appropriate questions) which makes them more confortable about returning. I’m with you in that I find it’s odd for an editorial writer to write a piece urging compromise only to dismiss any opinion or point of view he doesn’t agree with. I’m encouraged to find that I’m not alone in that opinion.
Stephan Sonn says
What you are doing Keith is playing God
from the qualifications of a
failed Hamlet understudy.
If you want to have transference
have it in your inert way
with someone else
Stephan Sonn says
From the lore of Winston Churchill-A Real Conservative.
As a spelling/punctuation editor was finishing his job
on one of the more inspiring rallying speeches,
he remarked to Churchill that it was impossible
to end a sentence with a misplaced preposition
He was fired on the spot.
Stephan Sonn says
As for all of us just getting along
IThis country’s politics are in a
deeply philosophical and moral rift.
I take all I can get
V
Share the bounty
Darwinism V Humanism
It is a matter of Genetics
Humans are essentially not hive animals.
Yet they breed ever hungry children.
Liberals usually bargain for position.
Hunters hunt and don’t share or relent willingly
So it has come down to
Predator V Prey
Social Democracy is a fragile fluke but one worth fighting for.
Right down to election day 2012.
S Pennington says
Predator = any government with taxing, regulating, and/or police authority (this would also be the hunter)
Prey = productive people who create wealth through their hard work and ingenuity who then have the fruits of their labor confiscated or placed off-limits by the Predator under threat of confiscation or imprisonment (these would be those who bargain, or provide value in return for money)
Do I understand that correctly?
gerry maynes says
Hi the problem is simply this all the money spent since the 1960!s on social engenering hasn!t cured a darn thing. The same old problems still exist. The Democrats simply havent been able to come to grips with this reality’ The country is broke and things need to change. The only cure for povety is to expand the economy. Only the private sector can do it.
As for my fellow Republicans yes Regan was correct ! But as anj one who hjas played sports will tell you all games need rules and refs to keep things honest. It would also be helpful to remember at the end of the day we are all Americans and we need each other to make things work. So how about a little civility and take a few minutes to walk in the other guys shoes, before we star screaming! For the best for all we need the liberals and the conservatives to keep both sides in check and the country firmly ihe middle.
Stephan Sonn says
You seem so helpless. Poor thing. Try basket weaving.
Stephan Sonn says
One of the things I admire
about alpha wolves
is that after they eat their fill
they don’t whine about
the pups and betas
taking their share.
I think that when you finish
you toss the remains over the cliff.
So nobody else gets anything
Or maybe you sit and wait
for real alpha alpha to finish
Stephan Sonn says
I think you need to banter with somebody
of your own age group.
This is like being in Middle school.
with somebody carrying a one-up scorecard.
Find another playmate.
I am not challenged.
S Pennington says
This whole discussion has taken a remarkable turn.
I thought I’d detected a whiff of populist revolutionary at the beginning. But now, with the conflicted statements around Darwinism v. humanism and expression of admiration for alpha wolves, as well as the determined belittling of differing viewpoints, I think we’re dealing not with social democracy so much as national socialism… blonde hair and blue eyes and all that.
Wie mache ich?
Stephan Sonn says
You seem confused, let me help you.
The Tea Party is contrived political oxymoron
designed to link the narcissist ego mentality
to a cause of those attempting social changes
creating foot soldiers to maintain and expand power
under ruse of “socialist threat”.
It is social engineering by professionals
in that field. and Tea Party Project
has been years in the making for years.
The reason that Liberals are
confounded by tea party moves
is that their logic based reality is nulled
leaving them only a visceral emotional behavior choice
which they are not mentally equipped to employ.
The traditional conservative
that usually confronts liberals
is not other directed like liberals
he is he is more the pioneer spirit,
domestic pack hunter if you will
Both are linked in common evolution
by what poets choose to call romantically
the noble savage
Tea party Mantra and leadership
are mutant
from the natural order of Darwin
As for national socialism
You would know more about that than me.
Why did you feel you had to speak German?
Either you are some kind of dilettante
seeking amusement and second guessing for fun
or….
Either way your are boring.
And I am too old to waste my time
As to why I replied,
I just wanted to rub it in
when you rose to the bait.
Your next move to turn the tables
and make me a NAZI Neo-Liberal
is anticipated so don’t bother
unless you like being a
one man Tea party show.
Another suggestion for yo might be
one of the many computer games available.
Stephan Sonn says
gerry
We really need a voice of reason in the country
and in this small place.
I am here for fiction writing research pointers
but even in my imagination I am shocked
by the bizarre variety and flaws of humankind
displayed here.
Tea Party is a study in itself.
Stephan Sonn says
gerry
We really need a voice of reason in the country
and in this small place.
I am here for fiction writing research pointers
but even in my imagination I am shocked
by the bizarre variety and flaws of humankind
displayed here.
Tea Party is a study in itself.
Stephan Sonn says
I commented just after gerry’s wise counsel that
his was the only comment that I could completely agree with
in all my posting here.
it got lost.